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Talk:Demogorgon
Why is this monster's base level listed as 50? For every other monster I can find, the value listed in monst.c as the 3rd parameter corresponds to the base level. See monst.c#line2731 for Demogorgon's stats. Is there something in the game that sets values over 50 to 50? Addps4cat 17:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC) : Answered my own question, see makemon.c#line923. Addps4cat 20:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC) Expanded article with an eye towards the noobs. Okay, I fleshed this article out with strategy ideas and some material on the implications of Demogorgon's powers of sickness and pursuit. Some of this stuff was already in there--for example, his powers are clearly listed in the stats box--but my intent was to connect the dots a little better for the moderately-experienced player who may never have had to work through the implications of everything before meeting Demogorgon (like, well, me until just recently). It could certainly use some prettying up, but I would request future editors to look at this from the point of view of someone who doesn't already know how to tackle the big D. There's a place for terseness and a place for making things more explicit. Thanks!--Ckbryant 22:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC) Taming Can Demogorgon and/or other demon princes be tamed? Are they vulnerable to level drain? How could I determine this from the page (article on Death Rider says that he is immune but its not listed under resistances or anything)? DemonDoll 19:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Most things can be tamed if you level drain them enough--Famine and Pestilence, for instance. Demogorgon? Don't know. It would be a most interesting thing for you to research, perhaps by starting a game in Wizard Mode as a wizard character, wishing up spellbooks of Drain Life and Taming, setting your XL to 30, and creating Demogorgon via the create monster command. I'd be interested in hearing your findings. --Ckbryant 23:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC) : Even the Wizard can be level drained, so why not. DemonDoll, I'd be interested in hearing of your results. -Tjr 15:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC) :: uhmm, seems no if I read the source correctly: Drain_resistance#Acquiring_drain_resistance. -Tjr 21:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC) I am pretty certain that Demogorgon cannot be tamed not just because he cannot be level drained, but more importantly he is Covetous (wants the amulet), and anything Covetous cannot be tamed in that form. (ie. to get a pet Arch Lich, you need to raise one from a Demilich). : However, in SLASH'EM it is a very different story. Did it today. However, it seems to only be useful as a Silly Ascension Trick. Pets do not cast offensive spells, and it seems monsters other than yourself have a natural immunity to sickness. All this leaves is level drain, stunning and rather low amounts of damage. - MrFroon 06:24, October 12, 2009 (UTC) :: Wizard mode testing confirms Demogorgon is completely untameable. This was done on a non-teleport level with a magic trap because it ignores magic resistance. -Tjr 02:27, October 13, 2009 (UTC) ::: Did you imply I was lying? I hate it when that happens, as now I need to defend myself... "You cannot tame Demogorgon in NetHack, however in SLASH'EM you can have Demogorgon as a pet." Due to Demogorgon having the property "M3_WANTSAMUL", he, like all covetous monsters, cannot to tamed in that form. However in SLASH'EM there is an exploit that allows a monster to change to another form and eventually change back. That Wizard Mode test was flawed, repeating the experiment using an Arch Lich instead of Demogorgon would yield the same result, yet pet Arch Liches are well documented. (I am curious if any major demon, say a marilith, would be tamed this way, the wiki claims that major demons can only be tamed when the player is polymorphed into a demon, I don't have access to wizard mode, so I don't know.) Evidence. I took a screenshot, granted any image can be faked, but in any case: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6299/demopet.png Finally, a repeatable experiment which should yield the same result repeatedly. As I mentioned earlier I do not have access to Wizard Mode, so this is a bit of a guess. In SLASH'EM Wizard Mode, summon Demogorgon, polymorph yourself into a Genetic Engineer, hit Demogorgon, if you can tame the result do so, if not hit him again and then tame. Reverse genocide or summon in some enemies that could kill the pet (I used conflict and blue jellies in my game, he was a 800hp cave spider). Note what happens when the pet that once was Demogorgon dies. I could probably find the TTYrecs of my play if you require further evidence, was playing on Pallas (slashem.crash-override.net) under the username "SandraWinn".- MrFroon 20:57, October 13, 2009 (UTC) You are perfectly correct about the Demogorgon (and Death, ...) in SLASH'EM. Perhaps I should be more clear: Monsters in Demogorgon or arch-lich form are completely untameable. (I do not know about shapechangers in Demogorgon form.) That does not preclude already tamed monsters becoming arch-liches. As a side note, you can often hear the "human or elf" extended structure excludes the "pet" extended monster structure, which is why @ are untameable. The guardian angel you get on Astral Plane is tame, and does not have the pet extended structure. -Tjr 14:01, October 14, 2009 (UTC) Jousting Demogorgon Tried it in wizard mode, using believable equipment and stats. -25 AC, 25 str from GoP, +7 lance, expert in lance and riding, max luck, riding a Ki-rin. The first hit was not a joust, so he teleported away, waited a few turns, then attacked and made me sick. I was able to joust him, but he got away after that because my next attack wasn't a joust. Third time was the charm, and I jousted him repeatedly until he died. Took about 6-8 hits, so I estimate a ~25% chance of being able to kill him in any given chance if you can do enough damage. Failing a single joust should give him enough time to escape, unless you're riding a fast warhorse (I'm no expert on riding, or even speed, so I could be wrong). However even if he does escape you'll have plenty of time to apply your unicorn horn and fix the illness. Drain life can be easily prevented with MC3, his worst spells will be stopped by MR, and his regular attacks are actually fairly lackluster. -- Qazmlpok 21:26, October 21, 2010 (UTC) : Once you can get that kind of gear, can't you just stand on the stairs up, burn Elbereth / drop scare monster, and beat him with a sock? Tjr 16:18, October 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes. Of course. For the most part, I don't even use the sock; most of the time I've encountered him I just wait for him to summon a black dragon and wait for him to get disintegrated. Isn't a player going to have this level of gear by the time they encounter Demogorgon? I'm pretty sure the only way you could encounter Demogorgon before Gehennom is from Yeenoghu or Juiblex, and those two are already extremely rare outside of Gehennom. The level of gear I mentioned is actually worse than what I normally have when I enter Gehennom, although I also tend to over-prepare. -- Qazmlpok 16:39, October 22, 2010 (UTC)